Trading emails with Garcia

Garcia and I had lengthy discussions today about NFL coaches, arbitration, why McCarthy would tell the media Capers was his third choice, the Simmons/Klosterman podcast, old NBA players, and more. Here's what transpired....


NF: So, if we had a sports talk radio show, what would we talk about on a slow sports day like today? Arbitration and Ryan Howard asking for$18 million?

MG: In Milwaukee I think you would talk about how that Ryan Howard deal affects Prince.

NF: Does it really affect Prince? Howard has been an MVP, has a World Series Championship, and has put up consistent numbers for 3 seasons.

MG: Yeah they said last years deal would probably set a bar for Prince. He won't have the same stats, but if Howard is getting $18M, Price is going to command at least $12.

NF: They should really trade him to an AL team soon.

NF: Czaben is talking about the Real Housewives right now.

MG: Great bad show. I loved it last night.

NF: I've never watched it. Perhaps you can break it down for me and that will give us something to do until Garcia chimes in.

JG: Yeah, I'm listening.
Fielder submitted a figure of $8M, far below what many thought he'd ask for. The Brewers countered with $6M. There is no way I'm trading him this year unless they can get a young pitcher major league ready forhim.

I'd lead with Fielder/Sheets, since it looks like Sheets is close to signing with the Mets. Great, so we lose Sheets and Sabathia and don'tget one first round pick to show for it. Talk about a flawed system.

Of course WSSP doesn't address either in the time I heard that show this morning. More national stuff and inauguration stuff. I get theinauguration is a big deal, and you should mention it, but you're a Milwaukee sports show. I don't think listeners you get care, or are the most insightful in that area. God I hate that station.

NF: Explain to me how the Brewers aren't getting a first round pick for either Sheets or Sabathia

JG: I didn't see the housewives last night, or Nip/Tuck (that one is on lifesupport in my TV viewing schedule anyway). I worked from 4am-Midnight (not a typo) on Monday, so when I got home from work yesterday I fell asleep at about 6 and slept until 6 this morning.

I heard McCarthy said he had offered the job to Gregg Williams, but Williams turned him down because his family decided they'd rather be in New Orleans than Green Bay, and then offered it to Haslett, but Haslett turned him down for the time being until he heard about his chance at the St. Louis job, then offered it to Capers.

Why the eff would you say this? Why come out and say he was your third choice, just say he was our guy all along and when people press you on if you offered it to someone else, say we don't comment on our coaching staff search and guys not on our squad.

JG: Texiera was the highest rated free agent, so the Yankees give their first rounder to the Angels, Sabathia was the highest rated pitcher, but second highest rated player, so we get their next (2nd) round pick.

K-Rod was rated higher than Sheets, so if he does sign with the Mets we get their second.
The real treat is, if the Yankees swoop in at the last minute and sign Sheets (it wouldn't shock me, especially if they don't get Pettit), we get a 4th round pick for him, since AJ Burnett rates higher than Sheets.

Yeah, not a flawed system at all.

My proposal is this, come out with a way of rating players on a "A","B", "C" scale and implement a rule that you can only sign one "A" freeagent each off-season - excluding re-signing your own guys. It would be kind of like the NBA where you're more likely to retain your own guys.
I don't see why the players union wouldn't go for this, because it would mean more money all around, if they Yankees sign all the top guys, most teams just pack it in and search the scrap heap, but in this system you'd have the Brewers, Blue Jays, Angels, etc. all hypothetically signing top guys to big money deals.

The only problem being, how do you come up with a accurate and universally accepted way of rating these guys?

NF: I didn't catch Nip/Tuck either, and actually forgot about it until you just mentioned it now. I wonder if it got dvr'd. Oh well if it didn't.

McCarthy probably mentioned it for 2 reasons:

1) you tell someone they were your third choice, and it will go one of two ways. Either the guy says, well fine, then screw this, they don't even care, they didn't even want me, who cares if I screw up? Or, wow, I'll show these guys why I should have been the number one choice. Screw them, I'm doing everything I can to prove I was the best guy for this position, and in fact, do so well, that people question the head coach as to why I was the third choice and start saying I should be the head coach. Which way do you think a former head coach will go?

2) if he screws up, McCarthy has an out by simply saying, "Look, I told you guys he was our third choice. He was the best we could get."

NF: Ahhhhhhh. I had no idea that's how it worked, but it makes sense nowthat you explained it to me. I thought type A got first roundcompensation, but obviously, that can't happen when teams sign morethan one type A free agent. I like your plan about limiting thenumber of type A guys you can sign. And how about taking it a stepfurther where you can sign as many type A guys as first round picksyou have. So let's say hypothetically that Sheets and Sabathia are onthe market, the Yankees want both, but only have 1 first round pick,so they sign Sabathia. then, someone signs let's say Giambi as a typeA (I know he's not, but hypothetically again) from the Yankees,meaning they have another first round pick available to sign Sheets.Although, there are major flaws with that as well.

JG: I get telling Capers. But why tell the media? And the fans? We don'tneed to know that.
And the second reason you cited wouldn't help his cause, it would hurthim. The Packers are one of the premier names and franchises, peopleshould want to come to this organization, right or wrong, that's stillhow fans and front office people feel. If you use the "he was my thirdchoice, I couldn't get anyone else excuse" it just makes you look badbecause you'll then get asked the question "what are you doing wrongthat people don't want to come here anymore?"

JG: I like that idea of saying if you have two first rounders, you can signtwo, etc.
But, I think using your example, the Yankees have 1, they sign Sabathiaand want Sheets. They lose Giambi and like you said, lets just say he'san A, they still can't sign Sheets because they'd have to wait anotheryear to get the pick and would be able to sign two A guys the next year.
I just don't get why the players union pushes for their guys to leaveteams and get huge deals in a sport like baseball. By pushing forSabathia to take the Yankee deal, that means while they Yankees aredropping $161M on him, the Brewers aren't spending their offered $100M.The Yankees are going to sign money anyway. Same with the Nationalsbeing in on Texiera, if they signed him to a big deal, that's money thatotherwise wouldn't have been spent. The Yankees would just shift theirplans and sign Lowe, Manny and another guy. Overall, it's more moneyfor all the players, rather than more money for a few guys.
I don't get why their main goal is to set benchmarks in money per yearfor individuals, rather than upping total money spent on players eachyear. It probably sounds like sour grapes from a fan of a team wholooks like they're losing two guys with little compensation to show, butI just can't figure it out. I'm not naive enough to think the unionlooks out for all guys equally, but they're really saying that they onlycare about the best interest of the top ten or so guys.

NF: On Capers, I don't agree with the decision to tell the media and fans,that's just why I think he did it. Personally, I think it's abush-league move and just makes the idiot Packers fans already startthinking of excuses for the defense in case he isn't all that great.
(Scene: a bar in the northwoods of Wisconsin. The 43 year old bartender who looks like she is 65, takes a drag from her cigarette asshe hands two gentlemen who both look like they just got done with ashift at the local paper factory after hunting, 2 cans of blatz.Flannel Man one says: What da hell is gon on wit da Packs defense, ya know?Flannel Man two responds: Jesus Christ, tell me about it. McCartyhires dat damned Capers, and all hell breaks loose. Who'd a thunkdey'd be worse aff this year? Welp, guess that's what happens when yasettle fir yir tird choice.
And scene)
I totally agree with the Sabathia/Yankees thing with the playersunion. I can't remember where I heard them talking about it on theradio, it may have been Tirico and VP or just SVP or even BillMichaels, but they were talking about the same thing you mentionedwith the contracts. If the players union really wants the union togain as much money as possible, they should encourage players to signwith these smaller market clubs who are offering substantialcontracts, even though it may not be as much as others are offering.Exactly to your point, who else are the Brewers going to offer $100million to? Nobody. Not this year, not next year, not the yearafter. The Yankees would have still probably spent close to $400million on three players not named CC or Mark.

JG: No, I agree with your reasoning. I mean why bother, it just gives morefuel to people that already hate McCarthy and Thompson, because thosesame two guys sitting at the bar will say "See, McCarthy can't getanybody to want to come here, he keeps getting turned down and had tosettle on Capers. Nobody ever turned down Holmgren."
That's the thing I really hate about Packers fans, they're becoming Bearfans. Sorry Gaddis. But the Bear fans always point to 1985 and Ditka,well Packer fans are no better. It really started these past few years,but this season especially, everyone points to 1996 and 1997. They allwant to fire McCarthy, Thompson and Murphy and bring back Holmgren, Wolfand Harlan.
It's 2009, stop living in 1996 and get over it.

NF: I just want the Packers to win a Super Bowl while I can still throw'em down like I used to every once in a while and before I have kidsto worry about taking care of during the game and within 3 days after. That's all I want. We were freshman when they won the Super Bowl,that's just not fair. They need to win one with in the next 5 yearsor so, otherwise there's a good chance some ankle biters will bearound.
If we as fans have to wait another 30 years between championships, I'mgoing to vomit many, many times. I think I'm going to pull for theCardinals in the Super Bowl so that one more team can claim the title. I was about to say so that their fans can celebrate after so manyyears, but the Cardinals fans suck, and Bidwell did nothing for thatteam, so eff the fans.

JG: I just listened to the Rex Ryan press conference on WFAN. I initiallyblasted that and thought it was an awful hire, mostly because none ofthe former Ravens coordinators have done anything and looked likegeniuses because of the talent they got to coach in Baltimore - speakingof which, how hasn't Marvin Lewis been fired yet?
But after hearing him talk, I've done a total 180. I really likedlistening to what he had to say. If I was a player, I'd love playingfor him.

NF: What was it that he had to say which made you change your mind?
Do you have the podcasts you've done posted anywhere?
Yeah, why hasn't Marvin Lewis been fired yet? I mean seriously. Doyou think they'll lose Housh this off season?
Are you going to Brewer's on-deck at all this weekend? Or the boatshow? Or the All-Canada show?

JG: I've got to work at the station at night and here in the morning, butI'm going to see if I can get credentialed to cover the player sessionsin the afternoon for the station.
Ryan was very personable and didn't give a bland interview. He spokeabout what he specifically wants to do, including what he wants to dowith players and the players he thinks he can get to have big years likeones he had in Baltimore. He just sounded like a football guy.
The podcasts are done, but not posted (probably a good thing, as eachone has gotten better but I'm not satisfied with my counterparts justyet). I still need clearance from the third party server, which Ihaven't gotten yet. I'm going to just turn to Gaddis' dad pretty soonlike Gaddis suggested and see if I can upload them to his server andlink from there.
I have the phone interview finally figured out, but I need a $50 partfor it. I'm hoping to get that for my birthday next week and then I'llbe able to do things with you and Gaddis over the phone.

NF: Your birthday is the 30th, correct? Or am I way off onthat? Are you doing anything for it other than hopefully getting that$50 part? How was your visit to Madison?
Umm, who did Ryan get hired to coach, anyway?

JG: Yeah, the 30th. Probably go out somewhere down here, maybe Fanatics orsomething. I was going to see if Gaddis wanted to come down, but hetells me he's in Atlanta (total BS), so if you and Chris are in town,then by all means.
Madison was good. Played some video games, watched Pineapple Express,Gaddis refused to watch Step Brothers, even though he agreed to watchthe special features and found all the bonus scenes hilarious.
We went to Old Chicago and they have some Ale Asylum beer on tap, Iforget what it was called...Gaddis? Anyway, you only get like 8 ouncesand it's like 13% alcohol. It was quite good. Gaddis did smoke me inNBA Live though, not my proudest moment.
Ryan is with the Jets. He brought the Ravens LB coach with him to bethe D-Coordinator.
I mean seriously, how is Marvin Lewis still coaching a team? Is IsaiahThomas secretly running the Bengals?

NF: The 30th, that is what, a Friday? That sounds like something we'd beable to do. We're going to the Marquette game the next day andpossibly the UWM game later that evening, so it would be a fullweekend.
How was Pineapple Express? Did you know Rogen is only 26? He's 2months younger than me. I really need to start remembering how old Iam.
Ryan with the Jets. Got it. And where did SteveSpangararhaovafuooiaoalo go? St. Louis? Is Herm Edwards fired yet?Wasn't Jim Schwartz the Packers D Coordinator once? Did Tampa hiresomeone to replace Gruden yet? Is he going to be a head coachsomewhere this year?
Seriously, is Kurt Warner a HOFer?
When will the pollsters realize Duke isn't that good?
I can't wait until the first week of the NFL season next year. I amgoing to go for a 32 team parlay the first week. I'm going to be $1 onthe parlay, pick all the winners and nail all of the over/unders, andthen never bet on another game again. I can't wait for this tohappen. Then, I am going to take all of the money I win from that onebet, go to Vegas, go to a craps table and put all of it on box cars.Then, after Michelle throws two sixes, I'm going to go to the Bellagioand crap on one of their Blackjack tables.

JG: I'm actually going to the Marquette game the 31st as well, and wastalking about going to the UWM game with Fabos that evening.
Spags did go to the Rams. Herm hasn't been canned yet, but he's got tobe fired, doesn't he? He's only got one year left on his deal, and whybother keeping a lame duck coach? There is talk of him ending up inIndianapolis as the D-Coordinator if he's fired, now that theirs steppeddown. That whole Indy thing is strange. The D-Coordinator resigns, andthen there was two other guys who had to be talked out of retiring onceDungy did? What's going on there?
Raheem Morris took over for Gruden, so the guy gets promoted toD-Coordinator once Kiffin officially left after the season, and thenweeks later is promoted to head coach? Really? I just don't get firingJohn Gruden for Raheem Morris.
I think Gruden gets the Notre Dame job if he wants it, but I questionhow he'd relate to college athletes. Professional guys hated him, doyou think a kid is going to like John Gruden screaming at them andtelling them whatever they did wasn't good enough?
I liked Pineapple Express, but it clearly references illegal substancesa lot. I knew Rogen was a young prodigy of sorts, didn't know he was 26though. I read he was writing stuff for 'Freaks and Geeks' when he was13, and he used to write that 'Undeclared' show that was on Fox and usedto write for the Ali G show. Really makes me feel like I'veaccomplished a lot in life.
Warner...thats tough. If he wins he's got a really good case. My onlystruggle with it is that he's only had like four good seasons and two ofthem were great where he won the MVP award. That's really tough, he wasan average QB or worse for half of his career, the other half was greatand he went to 3 Super Bowls. I'd be fine with him getting in, and finewith him getting snubbed.

NF: That is strange about Indy, didn't know about all of theretirements/non-retirements.
For the basketball games on those days, Michelle is going, Ballbachand his brother are going, apparently it's going to be a large groupof peeps going, should be good times.
Don't know how Herm has kept his job, much like Marvin Lewis. I'malso surprised Weis has kept his job this long. Did Gruden go to ND,or why do you think that job would be his if he wanted it? I reallywish NBC would dump their television contract with Notre Dame and theywould join the Big Ten, make it 12 teams and split the divisions toEast/West, so it would look like this:
East:Penn StateMichiganMichigan StateOhio StatePurdueNotre Dame
West:IndianaIllinoisMinnesotaIowaWisconsinNorthwestern
Granted, the East would be a whole lot better than the West, but lookat the Big 12 North/South where you have Texas, TT, A&M, Baylor,Oklahoma, and OK State all in the same division, and Nebraska, CO,Iowa State, Kansas, K State, and Missouri.
Then, you keep the ND- Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State matchup everyyear, Michigan- Michigan State and Ohio State, Wisconsin/Minnesota,Minnesota/Iowa, Illinois/Northwestern, blah blah blah.
So, Wisconsin's schedule would look like this every year;
MinnesotaIowaIndianaIllinoisNorthwesternEast1East2East3Non conferenceNon conferenceNon conferenceor play 4 teams from the other division and only 2 non conferencecames. Then, the Big Ten can have a championship game so that teamsaren't off for 40+ days.
Definitely don't see college guys responding well to Gruden'stechnique. Where will Charlie Weis end up if he is fired?
Raheem Morris. Wasn't he just the d-backs coach this year, and hasalready gotten 2 promotions? Wish I was that good.

JG: I like the Big Ten idea, especially since Wisconsin would be a favoriteto be playing in the conference championship game each year.
Gruden has some strong ties to ND. He was a GA or an assistant coachthere when he was younger, and was speculated to be the lead candidatefor the job when they hired Fatty Wiess. I want to say he gave aninterview where he basically said what Urban Meyer did, that ND is hisdream job, but not right now or the timing wasn't right.
As for Weiss, they haven't canned him yet because they still owe himsomething like $24M. When I asked Gaddis the same thing over theweekend, he said "If I've got to pay a guy that much, I'm not firinghim." I don't know, maybe so, especially with this economy, but Weissain't getting it done, and isn't well liked there. Plus I think he'djump a the chance to go back to NE and take over their O-coordinator jobagain now that McDaniels is gone. Perfect timing if you're ND, a guylike Gruden becomes available and you'd think you could get off easywith Weiss going the buy out route considering you'd think Bellicheatwould re-hire him as his O-coordinator.
I don't even know if they've named a new one yet.

NF: I like how McDaniels leaves New England and there isn't this hugebacklash like there was from Bill when Mangini left.
Do you think Meyer leaves Florida next year after Tebow leaves andgoes to ND, basically telling them that the only way he's leavingFlorida is if they hire him?
The Big Ten thing, that's pretty much why I went East/West and not North/South.
As for the $24 M thing; back in the day, Oldsmobile wanted to get awayfrom being known as "Your Dad's car company" and this guy came up witha huge ad campaign for them in which their slogan was "Not your dad'soldsmobile", they were trying to show how hip they were and that allthe problems of the old cars were solved. But, much like New Coke,this didn't work. The campaign cost something like $50 million tolaunch and when the CEO was asked why he didn't fire his advertisingdepartment and this guy specifically, he replied, "We just spent $50million training him (them) what not to do, why would we let him(them) go now"? I think it works a little differently with majorcollege football, but maybe they just figure they'd rather ride itout.

JG: Maybe I'm over thinking it, but why not if you're ND? You'd get a bigname taking your job (why did they think Charlie Weiss was that bigname?) and you'd think you could get off easier on the buyout with thelooming possibility of Weiss landing back in New England.
Speaking of buyouts, I had to ask Gaddis about this over the weekendsince I'm not the financial virtuoso he is, but I saw Stephon Marburyjust told the Knicks he put his offer back on the table. His offer isthis, if you want to buy him out he'll give you back $1M of his $21Msalary. What?
Again, I'm no financial expert, but when you discuss buyouts, wouldn'tit be like "Stephon, you're owed $21M lets talk buyout. We'll pay you$13M to just go away and land wherever you want" But he wants $20M ofhis $21M to leave?
At that point, don't you just say FU, weren't not buying you out, you'resitting on the bench all year. No going to Boston and playing in theplayoffs or potentially getting a ring, you're riding our bench. Goodluck finding a job next year.
Or, are buyouts really that ridiculous?

NF: Isn't the NBA trade deadline sometime soon? Shouldn't Simmons behammering out his trade-value column sometime soon? What do you thinkthe top five looks like?
WadeHowardKobePaulLeBron?
I mean, Kobe, Paul, and LeBron have to be 1-2-3, right? I don't evenwatch much of the NBA and I know it would have to be these three, yes?
Anywho, for buyouts, all I know is business, and in business if you'rebuying someone out of their contract, or don't want to fire them forfear of prosecution, severance packages are usually one year's worthof salary at a minimum, but more importantly, the company wants theassurance you will not spread around any trade secrets. Here's thething about Stephon Marbury; he's clearly dumb. I was going to callhim an idiot, but that word just gets tossed around too much thesedays to even use it in a derogatory manner anymore. He's dumb, plainas day dumb. He's Latrell "I"m turning down $14 million per yearbecause I have a family to feed" Spreewell dumb. If the Knicks don'ttell him to go copulate himself, they're crazy. No way they buy himout for $20 million. Why do you think he offered to give the $1million back? Has he spent all but that? I don't get it.

JG: The deadline is February 19th, so I'd guess it comes out next week orfirst week of February.
I don't remember his basis for the ratings off the top of my head, butI'd think the top three have to be LeBron, Paul, Kobe, Howard. Thefifth is tricky. Does D-Wade crack the top 5? I don't know. D Wade isvery good, but he's not on the same level as Kobe and LeBron, even Paulin terms of take over a game good.
I realize the business world buyouts, but this is a little different,and you've got to be right in suggesting Stephon has spent all but that$1M or at least a healthy chunk of his salary, but we all know howcolossally dumb Stephon Marbury is. Unless he's willing to take $14M togo away - and I even have a hard time paying him that much - I justtell him to eff off. Why should we do you a favor by allowing you to goto a better team?
And speaking of which, I've seen all the Marbury to Boston rumors, butwhy are the Celtics interested in Stephon Marbury? Why would any teambe interested in him?
Oh and also, who watches Lost? Why is that show still on the air?Wasn't it a lot better when it was called 'Gilligan's Island?' I havepeople tell me all the time, "oh how can you say that, it's way better."Really? All I know is there is a fat guy on the show. Now, they'vebeen "stranded" on this "island" for years now (I think that's what Iwas told), and yet...THAT GUY IS STILL FAT? WHAT?
Someone was like "no, well, they found a hatch that had food in it andsupplies and all this other stuff, so they're all eating." Oh, really?Reaaalllllly? So you have all these ridiculous things like that happenwhen you're on this island, and now - at least from what I gather fromthe previews - they're off the island? What? Oh, they're going back tosave people? Sure. Just a dumb show, at least from the sounds of it.

NF: Completely agree with all the Marbury crap. Are you serious, Boston?Why the hell do you want this guy on your team? The first thing Ithought of when I saw the Marbury/Boston rumors was that Simmons wasgoing to flip out, but I haven't even heard that much from him. It'sridiculous.
As for Lost, no I don't watch it. One night during the first season,I was at John and Jenny's before volleyball and it was on in thebackground. I checked it out for 2 minutes, was very confused, anddidn't like what I was seeing, so stopped watching at that point.Kelly has apparently gotten really into the show and has hammeredthrough most of the seasons so far and watched like 3 episodes on theplane ride both ways.
Apparently they had guns on the island or the plane as well orsomething, right? I don't understand the appeal, but their aredefinitely Lost freaks out there. The main difference between Lostand Gilligan's Island was that Gilligan's was a comedy, but based onthe seven deadly sins.

JG: I don't get Boston's fascination with him. Backup point guard is notyour pressing need. How does that make you better than the Cavs? AndI'm not even taking into account the type of disruption he could causeon your team and do to your locker room.
I just got back from lunch, had the radio on in the car. Is thereanything worse than hearing "Scott's out, Michelle Tafoya in today"?

NF: In terms of sports radio, here's what I do not want to hear:
- "Michelle Tafoya in today"
- "Welcome back to The Herd"
- "Aaron Rodgers is not getting up after that hit, folks"
- "In an unbelieveable turn of events, the Kansas City Royals comeback from down 9-0 with 2 outs in the ninth inning, no one on base,having been runnerless for the whole game, knock in 13 runs on 16straight hits, and then shut down the bottom of the ninth 1-2-3, todefeat the Cubs in game 7 of this World Series and hand them anotherheartbreak. We should also mention that Wrigley Field is beingdestroyed after this game."
- "Jim Rome here"
- "David Boston has been hired as the Packers strength andconditioning coach". I brought him up because what ever happened tohat guy? Is he still alive? Seriously, is he?
- "Welcome back to (insert tennis match)"

NF: Damn it, since Michelle is in for SVP, I have to listen to Fatcesa forthe next 3 hours. SOB

JG: Oh god. Those are all great. Especially the Rome and Cowherd ones.
Yeah, what did happen to David Boston? After he got all yoked up onroids he lost all his flexibility and elusiveness and just disappeared.Isn't his dad on official?
I'm listening to the Simmons podcast with Chuck Klosterman right now. Iwish those two had a three hour daily talk show. I could listen toChuck Klosterman talk about anything and think it was fascinating.

NF: Agreed with the Simmons/Klosterman thing. Those two should have takenover for Mike and the Mad Dog. I would actually probably pay a fee ifneeded to listen to a 3 hour show daily of them. I should reallystart reading some of Klosterman's books. I just finished thatpodcast about 20 minutes ago, it was a good one. I really want to goback to Vegas and see Simmons there.

JG: The best part was Klosterman's Motley Crue vs Guns N' Roses thing, andSimmons turning that into a Ewing/Robinson/Hakeem thing.
He was right though, Robinson and Ewing are considered two of thegreatest centers ever. Actually, they're two of the top 50 players ofall time, and Olajuwon just killed both of them in his prime. 1992-1998was probably the time I was most into the NBA in my life and I can stillpicture Hakeem just dominating both in the Finals and Conference Finals.The point of all of that is, is it just me or does it seem like Hakeemdoesn't get the credit he deserves? Looking at what he did to two ofthe best players of all time, his two rings and MVP award, and yet fewbring him up. Mostly because everyone always says "He only won thetitles because Jordan retired".
Man I wish Jordan wouldn't have "retired" and we would have got to see aRockets/Bulls Finals.
I also loved when Klosterman said "Jordan is the only guy that no matterhow much history proves he's a jerk, that makes people like him more."
"If we heard something like, you know Jordan put a hit out on IsaiahThomas for a while, people would be like that's awesome, that proves howcompetitive he is."
I loved that part.

NF: Or just straight up comparing him to Ty Cobb, one of the most hatedcharacters in the history of sports. Hakeem is the only reason ClydeDrexler has a ring, so Clyde probably doesn't underestimate hisability, but everyone else sure does. 92-98 was pretty much theheight of my NBA love as well, and Hakeem was a force during thoseplayoffs when they won the title. It would have been really nice tosee the Bulls and Rockets square off, I think they split those twofinals if they played, Bulls winning the first and Rockets winning thesecond. There is no way Sam Cassell outplays any of the Bulls guards,Pippen shuts down Horry, and Drexler/Jordan isn't even a contest aswas proven in 1992. But, the second year, with a little moreexperience under their belts, I think Hakeem destroys the Bulls lackof a center.
Back to this, though, Klosterman and Simmons need a radio show.

JG: Yeah, like you said, I'd pay for it.
I agree too with the splitting Championships thing. Jordan was greatbut Jordan never faced anyone like Hakeem. The first Championship, hegot an aging Lakers team. Magic wasn't a player that could take overthe game anymore.
Look at the guys the NBA threw at Jordan:
An Older Magic, Clyde Drexler, Barkley, Kemp/Payton, andStockton/Malone.
The equivalent of that would be LeBron winning six championships andfacing: Nash/Nowitzki, Deron Williams/Boozer, Carmello, McGrady andIverson. Good players and guys who had a select few great years, butnot a real challenge. He never had to face a guy who was equally asdominating. For as much damage as Jordan would have done to Drexler,Olajuwon would have destroyed the Bulls even more.
I actually think the Rockets win the first, and then the Bulls take thesecond one. The Rockets had more talent on that first team that won.The first team was far more dominant and talented. The only upgrade thesecond year was as you noted, Cassell and Horry weren't rookies. Thatsecond squad was totally carried by Olajuwon. Yes, the second year theyhad Drexler, but it was an over-the-hill Drexler and they depleted theirbench to get him (Pete Chilcutt and Chucky Brown logged heavy minutes intheir rotation that year).
God I wish we could have seen it.
I find it funny that I remember so much about the NBA when I was 10, 11,12 years old, and yet I could tell you very little about it today.

NF: I definitely agree with your point about knowing more about the NBAfrom 15 years ago than I do now. What is crazy (and Klostermanpointed this out) is that is does not seem even close to 16 years agothat Jordan "retired" and the Rockets started winning. It does notseem that long ago at all, not even close. I think I could name moreBucks from the 93-94 team than I can from the 08-09 team.

JG: People talk about the Cowboys not winning a playoff game since 1998 orwhatever it was, but this thing sticks with me more.
Do you realize there are high schoolers who think Michael Jordan wasthat old guy playing for the Wizards? He retired for the first time 16years ago? That's more than half the time I've been alive. I vividlyremember those first three titles, maybe even more than the last three,so that just makes me feel really old.
I guarantee you I could name more non-bucks players from 1992-98 than Icould name you Bucks players from 1992-2009.

NF: Well yeah, I could name more non-bucks players during that time periodas well, but if you think about it, you're using 29 teams with 12players, 348 total players are available each year, that's like 2088players. one team with 12 players per year for 17 years and you haveno where near the same pool of possible players.
And yes, June 1993 is when he retired the first time. 16 years.ridiculous. That makes me feel really old as well. I'm going to godrown myself in a bottle of grain alcohol now.

JG: I realize that, I was I guess just saying that for effect. Plus howmany people can name Clippers, Nuggets, Hawks, Grizzlies or Raptorsplayers from the mid 90's?
I see so many things now that make me feel old. Like before it was justplayers in the NBA/NFL/MLB that were the same age as me or younger, butPatrick Ewing Jr. is on the Knicks D-League squad? I feel like Iwatched Patrick Ewing play for at least half of his career and he has akid in the NBA/on the verge of the NBA? Really? What next, MichaelFinley Jr. getting drafted by the Bucks?
Oh, the other thing was I heard the Rams and Raiders have both been outof LA for 14 or 15 years now. Really?


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Until next time...